Laura

Thank you so much for joining us, Alicia.

 

Alicia

Hey, Laura, nice to be here.

 

Laura

Just so that our listeners can get to know you a little bit better. Could you tell us a bit about yourself and your family and what everyday life looks like for you?

 

Alicia

Yeah, of course. So, I've been married to the lovely James for about seven years. We live on the central coast of New South Wales with our two little girls. I'm the youngest of five kids and I grew up in a lovely, warm, generous Christian family. We go to our local Evangelical church, which we love, and I'm currently on maternity leave, but I'll be heading back to work soon as a nurse, a few days a week at a local hospital.

 

We like to spend their days at the beach, or the park, or playgroups, church day groups, the garden at home, catching up with friends and kids and family. We somehow seem to pack a lot in that we're still pretty strict on the 6:30 bedtime.

 

Laura

Nice. Well, how old are your girls?

 

Alicia

One is 10 months old and the other is two and a half.

 

Laura

Hence the 6:30 bedtime. I'm all for early bedtimes because the earlier they go to bed, they still wake up early in [crosstalk 00:01:16]. They still wake up early. So you might as just enjoy ...

 

Alicia

Put them together at nine o'clock and they'd still be up at five o'clock anyway. So hoping they have a bit of a better sleep tonight.

 

Laura

So the last few years have been pretty rough and hard for you. Would you feel comfortable sharing your story with us?

 

Alicia

Yeah. So back in 2016. My husband and I, we were living in Sydney at the time, but we'd gone on a family holiday with my mum and dad, and my siblings and their families. And while we're away chatting to my sister, who's also a nurse, and she noticed a few, we both noticed some physical and cognitive changes in my mum. We end up chatting to her and my dad about the need for mum going to go see a GP and potentially being referred to a neurologist.

 

Yeah, they both agreed that just something wasn't right, and they couldn't quite put their finger on it. And they got onto that quite quick. And within a few weeks, she had been diagnosed with something called Parkinson's Disease, which is a degenerative neurological disorder. We were all just devastated. But you know, I stay pretty positive and a lot of things were put in place, a lot of support to help mum and dad manage better. And we were pretty hopeful of her prognosis.

 

It could have been 10, 15 years. We just didn't know. But as the months kind of went by, we realised that mum was progressing quite quickly and all the treatments that she was put on didn't seem to be that effective in controlling her symptoms. Pretty quickly, she had to stop work. She wasn't allowed to drive. Mum and dad had to move house, and dad was essentially forced to retire so he could be my mum's carer, which was such a shift in roles for them.

 

Like my mum was that lady who would just bend over backwards to help anyone. And she had such a servant heart. She was mum to five kids. She didn't know how to sit down. She was just loved to serve. That was her love language. She just loved to serve people. So, yeah, it was a big shift for my dad then to kind of take that role on as a carer. To see her deteriorate, and just so quickly, it was just heart-breaking. Not being able to do things she loved anymore.

 

Laura

So that was in 2016?

 

Alicia

Yeah. So about mid 2016 was when she was diagnosed. By the beginning of '17, it was becoming a lot more apparent that she was losing a lot of different functions, like her voice became really, really quiet and really, really difficult to understand. She was having a lot of falls and yeah ...

 

Laura

She was just deteriorating faster than her initial prognosis?

 

Alicia

Yeah, absolutely. And we weren't really sure what that really meant and what the kind of time frames were. But the gist of it was that mum's body just wasn't responding to treatment and it was essentially system by system, starting to shut down. We knew it was closer to months than years.

 

Laura

So what was happening for you and James during this time?

 

Alicia

We'd moved closer to be near family. And we also welcomed our first daughter. I was a very anxious pregnant woman. I naively thought that would go away once I had the baby, which was just wrong. I mean, anyone who's had their first knows it's just such an incredible shift in everything. In pace, in lifestyle, in what your day to day looks like. And I had a lot of trouble working out what that looked like for me, I guess. Because so much of my time was spent visiting mum in different respites or going over to see her or like worrying about her.

 

And I was very thankful to have a sister, my older sister, who she really took the reins on coordinating mum's care and really took on a huge amount of the burden, which I'm just incredibly, incredibly grateful for.

 

And yeah, was just a very anxious mum with a dreadful lack of sleeping baby that I just, you know, you sleep deprived is enough.

 

Laura

It's a huge shift, becoming a mum and dealing with a baby and a new-born, let alone having this unimaginable, and for you, unprecedented grief. If you hadn't experienced anything like that before.

 

Alicia

So I almost feel like I didn't know myself because I didn't have the brain space to comprehend it. I couldn't keep up. Things were changing so quickly I didn't really know how to be a new mum and a good daughter, and I just didn't know how to do any of it. Every part of my life just felt like it was just dropping away and I felt like I was failing everything.

 

So one evening we'd called an ambulance. My sister and I had decided to call an ambulance. Because Mum's breathing had gotten quite bad and we just didn't think she could be managed at home comfortably. That was a really hard decision to make because we knew what would happen when she'd be admitted. She'd be there for weeks. She'd never wanted to be there. She just wanted to be at home. She agreed that it was best she went in as well.

 

I was so sick. So at this point, I was about, I think I was about 11 weeks pregnant when Mum arrived at the hospital, and she was assessed, they just told us that mum was in complete respiratory failure. And Mum was still able to talk and make decisions at that point. And she voiced that she wished to have some help with her breathing, so she could say goodbye to loved ones, and just give some time for my brother to come into state. We were all there for two days and ...

 

Laura

That's horrible Alicia. So she could still talk and function normally? It's not like she ...

 

Alicia

And it felt so strange that she was just sitting. Like she was sitting in the hospital bed. And just and it just seemed like, why is she worse than normal? Like, it didn't seem like that was it? It didn't seem real, to be honest. I remember calling James saying we need you to come in. Like this is it. And she was just sitting up in bed with oxygen on like talking. And like, I think from my experience of looking after patients that we've been told are going to die, it could go on for a week, like, you just don't know.

 

And I just prayed that that wouldn't be the case. That it wouldn't be really, really drawn out. And we pretty much had a day of mum's hordes of friends coming in. Which was lovely and that's what mum wanted. To come in and say goodbye and they were really respectful and only stayed for short periods of time. And then we just had a few family.

 

Then by the evening of the second day, my brother was there, we were all there, and she kind of just told us that she'd had enough, and she looked really tired. And that she was done, and she was ready to meet the Lord. After all the oxygen, everything was taken away. She became unconscious quite quickly and died a few hours later. We were with here.

 

And I was so thankful that we were able to say goodbye. We're able to talk to her for a bit. She was so difficult to understand, but she had a pen and piece of paper on a tissue box that she was scribbling down things for, you know, for a year, maybe longer. We were so worried that she would fall and hit her head. Or she would choke on something. That would be it. But we got to say goodbye and we were all with her.

 

And she was so at peace. She was just at a point where everything was just so much effort, so much effort. Everything that you could, any needs, any minor movement or act, just took such an enormous effort for her. And she was just ready to go. She was just ready.

 

Laura

Do you want to take a minute?

 

Alicia

No, I'm okay. I'm all right. I've been doing a lot of crying. This is, I feel like it comes and goes. It's still just so fresh still [crosstalk 00:10:20] so fresh. And I feel almost like, I was thinking about this earlier. Like when people we know lose someone, we have it in the forefront of our mind. I think for, I reckon about a year. And then once you've hit that kind of first year anniversary, as someone who's not directly involved, you kind of, I guess you forget. I don't know. I'm not really sure if it gets easier. And I'm okay with that because I love thinking about mum and I love talking about her. [inaudible 00:10:53] It's just because I miss her.

 

Laura

Yeah

 

Alicia

And that's OK. That's normal [inaudible 00:11:00] yeah. Like, I think people sometimes they think, feel afraid to ask. Are they worried that if they bring her up that they'll upset me or someone? But like I actually really love talking about her. To hear someone else say her name is really nice to know that other people are thinking about her too. And I know they do because like a lot of her friends at church would come up to me and ask me how [inaudible 00:11:32], because I think for a lot of them, it's feels fresh for them too.

 

But I think there's something really nice. Other people acknowledging that she's still on my mind. [crosstalk 00:11:48]. And it's almost like even though more time is going, the longer I [inaudible 00:11:54], the more I miss her. The more I think of questions I want to ask her, or wondered what she did at this stage. Or wanted to know what I was like at that age or things that you ask your mum. So from the time of her initial diagnosis, she died less than three years later, and this was all in about July 19.

 

And to be honest, after the shock of it all, I think I just went into a kind of survival mode and I would just almost not let myself think about it too much. And then, you know, of course, we know how the rest of that year kind of panned out with bushfires and floods and ...

 

Laura

Followed up with Corona virus.

 

Alicia

Yes.

 

Laura

And a baby

 

Alicia

And a baby. So when we welcomed baby number two in February 2020. When she was about five days old, we actually got the keys to our first home, which my husband then spent the next six weeks renovating with mountains of help. And they weren't even like fun, cute renos. They were like, "We need to make this safe and liveable." Yeah, I remember we moved in on the Saturday and stage three restrictions came in on the Monday. And I was just this grumpy, angry mum with a newborn who wouldn't sleep and didn't want to be put down, and a toddler whose world had been turned upside down, whose behaviour was just atrocious, like really bad.

 

Then James, who is a teacher, was doing remote learning from our tiny two-bedroom house, and it was just chaos [inaudible 00:13:42]. I think after a few weeks, things started to kind of settle. Restrictions eased up a bit. And then we celebrated Mother's Day.

 

Our eldest turning two. The anniversary of Mum's death came around. And it just felt like this huge wave of new grief just came raining down. And at times I just felt, it just felt so overwhelming. I just, I felt like I couldn't breathe.

 

And it would happen when it was quiet, when I was doing the washing up, when I was in the car and the girls were asleep. And I would just cry and cry and cry. I just couldn't comprehend that life had gone on without her. And I was just, I was raising these two girls without her there. And I just grieved, just the terrible suffering she went through and just the pain, the loss she felt too. Knowing, being so aware of what was happening to her, but knowing what she was going to miss out on.

 

And it just felt like, it was like the dust had just settled. And I was finally allowing myself to just grieve and it just all came out. And honestly, and I think that's kind of where I'm still at.

 

Laura

How has all of this grief affected your relationship with God?

 

Alicia

Oh, I don't think I'd be the first person to say that I felt God's presence in my life the most when I've just absolutely been like just brought to my knees. And I think the grief of mum's deteriorating and her dying has just pushed me to find comfort in his promises and a deep desire to find rest in his presence, as Mum did.

 

And honestly, I have had an easy life. Like I am a white middle class woman. I have a beautiful family. I went to high school. I went to university. I have a secure employment. I can freely worship. I can go to church. I'm super comfortable. And I think that when things we find security and just evaporate from beneath us, we tend to kind of look up and beyond. And we read like in Ecclesiastes three, that the Lord has placed eternity on our hearts.

 

But ours are so sinful and corrupt and we're so easily distracted, when we have a beautiful life. Things are easy and we kind of just, you know, plod along. But when things are kind of pulled beneath you, it was like the first time I truly, earnestly prayed. Like, "Come Lord Jesus, come."

 

It's not that I wanted to die or anything, I just, it was the first time I could so clearly see this huge fracture in the world that Jesus came to mend. And I just wanted things to be how he planned them to be, whether it is in death. And where our feet don't stumble, or our bodies don't fail us. We have a God that wants us to be gathered under him in the perfection of the new creation. And he made that possible through Jesus. You know, as Christians, we talk about longing to be in his presence. And we pray that his kingdom comes, but do we really like feel the brokenness and the sin of the world and the weight and the burden of that? And the reason that it needs restoring?

 

Or are we kind of like, "Yeah, sounds good, but I've got a trip to Byron coming up. So can we just like 'I come Lord.' But can you wait till after that?" Like we just, we're very comfortable and I feel like this just kind of rocked me off my pedestal.

 

Laura

Really showed what are your foundations.

 

Alicia

Yeah.

 

Laura

What have you learned about God through all of this season?

 

Alicia

Oh. Oh. That his plan will prevail. That he's faithful and trustworthy and good. Even though we don't always understand why. I have no doubt that my mum is with the Lord, that she's healed and she's whole with him. And it wasn't because she was the perfect mum, the perfect wife, and was faithful 100 percent of the time. That makes it about her. But it wasn't about her. It was about what Jesus did for her. And she knew that to just the core of her being, even in all her frailties and brokenness, he just wanted her to be in a relationship with him.

 

And that's what he wants from us, too. And isn't that just like the good news of the gospel and the freedom that we enjoy, that it's not about what we do and don't do, but it's just completely what Jesus has done? I mean, reflecting on lots of the Bible, but in particular on Lazarus's death and his resurrection, the fact that even though Jesus knew he was about to raise Lazarus and he knew that one day will all be raised, he still wept for his friend.

 

And I take a lot of comfort in the fact that Jesus was fully man and fully God, a great high priest that can empathize with us.

 

Laura

What have you learned about yourself during this time?

 

Alicia

I think that I'm just in desperate need of a saviour. I just can't do it on my own. When I was in labour with Bonnie, I remember reciting Psalm 121 over and over. "I lift up my eyes to the hills from where does my help come? My help comes from the Lord who made heaven and earth." And I need to constantly be lifting my gaze and not just shuffling with my head down. I want those desires to match those of the Lord.

 

And I long for that new creation. But at times I think. I find it hard to reconcile longing to be in his perfect presence, but also loving good things in the world that he's given us. But I think I've just come to realize that I don't think they're mutually exclusive, like God made this world. He called it good, but it was broken by the fall.

 

But it was his plan to have us here and now for his good purpose. And all those good things are from him as well. And I know mum didn't want to miss out on these good things. She wanted to see her grandkids grow up. But she also had a deep conviction of the truths. I have Psalm 73 engraved in my forehead that, "My flesh in my heart may fail, but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever." God put us here now. We need to work hard. Work is good, like we are made to work. And as mums we work hard all the time.

 

Laura

Unrelenting.

 

Alicia

Unrelenting, and also called to work hard and be faithful in preaching the word, preaching the Gospel.

 

Laura

Has this grief and your loss changed your life's priorities?

 

Alicia

Oh yeah. It's bothered me now more than ever how opposed our culture is to talking about death. It's very dismissive and there's very little room, I guess, for like public mourning. Everyone just wants you to pull the boots on and get on with it.

 

In a way, I think I feel really blessed that I've been confronted with it. My hand is kind of been forced to no longer approach life with complacency I guess. You know, I'm not the first person to lose a parent. You don't have to look far to see someone whose dad has cancer or families that have been separated or, you know, parents that have lost babies. And there's just so much brokenness in the world. And I think because of it, I feel so much more empathetic and see the need for other people to have that, like restoring nature of, and just to be able to grieve well and to grieve with hope.

 

And I think, like I mentioned earlier, you know, like we bought a house. Which I'm super thankful for. And I know that's like we're an extremely privileged position. And besides the fact that it does actually look like a tent, it's just that, our wind and rain shelter. We know we need to be good stewards of what we've been blessed with, but I think we're super conscious that it's just wood and a bit of metal and asbestos. But like it could be destroyed overnight, and we can't take it with us.

 

Like even this Sunday, we were reading 2 Corinthians 5, and I might just read it, 

5 For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. 2 Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, 3 because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked. 4 For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. 5 Now the one who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

6 Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. 7 For we live by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord. 9 So we make it our goal to please him, whether we are at home in the body or away from it. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.”

I think it's given me a real boot up the bum regarding ministry to my old girls and James. To speak the gospel into their lives hour after hour, day after day.

 

Laura

Puts life in perspective.

 

Alicia

Oh, man.

 

Laura

Alicia, has there been anything comforting in God's word that you've just clung to during this time?

 

Alicia

Yeah. So I've been working my way through the Book of Job, which really sings to a wary soul. I had such a great book and I think people kind of sidestep it thinking it's a bit depressing or get put off. But, you know, essentially God allows everything to be taken from Job. And Job kind of goes back and forth saying how confident he is that God is just and wise and other moments he doubts God's goodness. And he's got some few dodgy friends show up and give him some bad advice. At the end of the dialogue, Job kind of just demands God comes and defends himself. But God doesn't really give Job [inaudible 00:25:11] so he kind of just outlines who he is and who Job isn't.

 

He shows Job how grand the world is and how vast his understanding of it is. And from Job's perspective, it seems like God isn't just, but from God's perspective, things are just infinitely bigger. So in actual fact, it seems pretty crazy that Job is asking God to kind of explain himself when there's no way for Job to even understand all these things if you wanted to. So Job, yeah, is kind of left in this place of humility.

 

And he never really learns why. He loses everything but continues to live in peace and fear of the Lord. And that he can trust in God's wisdom, which is a real comfort.

 

Laura

In that God is kind, because who is Job to stand before God and be demanding. And question though we do do that.

 

Alicia

Yeah. Yeah.

 

Laura

God didn't say, "Who are you to talk?" Like I do to my kids.  Who are you to talk to me like that? That's really rude. Have some respect. God said, "This is who I am. I am God."

 

Alicia

Yep. And Job's kind of left humbled and God doesn't tell him why it all happened. And he's yeah. He's kind of just left with this newfound peace and fear of the Lord.

 

Laura

Which is similar to what we go through. Because even when we go through this grief, when we come to God with it and we ask for the answers and we don't get them, we kind of are left hanging in a similar way.

 

Alicia

Yeah. We so badly just want the reason.

 

Laura

We want to be God. We like, goes right back to the Garden of Eden. We ate the fruit because we want to be in control. We want to be all knowing. We want to be God. And we still in our grief come back to that. We want the answers, and we want to know and we [inaudible 00:27:14] rest in God being God, and his goodness, and the truths and the promises that he's given us about himself and his character. But rest in him and his authority.

 

Alicia

Yeah, I love that this stuff is included in the Bible. It's not omitted because it's messy and uncomfortable and hard. It's so that we can see. Believers struggling and asking God for answers, and searching, and in pain because, yeah, we're still people.

 

I mean, no one's chasing us in the desert but, maybe. But yeah, we still have these longings that we want to inquire of God and lay before him. And that's okay. And that God just wants us to be able to come to him with those things, and then rest in his faithfulness to us. And yeah, it's cool that you can kind of see that the [inaudible 00:28:07] is soft in landing that as well. But we OK. [inaudible 00:28:12].

 

Laura

Alicia as you've been talking in all your grief, in despair, you've just so clearly seen God through that. I think even at the beginning you were saying, you know, when you're on your knees, all you could do is look up. Do you have any advice for both the people who are going through a season of grief and suffering like yourself, but also for the, maybe a caution for the person who's in a season of thinking that life is just sweet and cruise-y?

 

Alicia

Yeah, I guess word of warning, don't rest in that comfort. Also praise God we go through seasons. So if you're in a cruise-y one, maybe you need to be utilizing it to prepare to love those around you well who are going through a tough time. Like make yourself available. Cook them meals, buy them hand cream, read the Bible with them, send them thoughtful messages. Remind them of God's promises to his people. I think there's this really excellent book, actually. I don't know if you're in the business of spruiking, but I actually read this with Mum.

 

Like, this is just my mum, like reading a book about how to care for people while she was bed-bound. And we would read it together when I would go visit her in hospital or just when she was in hospital. And it's called Together Through the Storm - A Practical Guide to Christian Care by Sally Sims. Just that book. You want to have the pen and you want a really helpful way to be practical, loving Christian brother or sister. And I guess, again, just don't put your hope in things that will rust and fade, and don't be complacent. Live with urgency. Like Jesus is coming and we will all live forever somewhere.

 

And I pray that if you're a believer, you sincerely look into what that actually means so that you can be spurred on with that knowledge to know where you're heading, like what the goal is. You know, Jesus's purpose for his people is and I guess at the moment, especially with COVID and over a long, long period of time, well, we weren't able to meet together as believers. Like, I really hope that we felt the pain of that, because I really, church is just, it's a glimpse of that, isn't it?

 

It's believers meeting together to bring glory to God. And that's heaven. Like we're going to be doing it for eternity. Like that should be something you are grieving that we're not able to do, and to long to want to do that together.

 

Laura

And what about the mum who's heartbroken?

 

Alicia

Oh, I don't have the answers, but I'm so thankful that we've been given the Holy Spirit and that we have the Bible that does. We just need to be surrounding ourselves with loving, careful, wise women that will care for you. And yeah, I think just acknowledge that you also need to care for yourself. And I know I found that really hard. Spending all day trying to keep small children alive. In the evening, you just want to zone out and not really do anything of much value, I guess. But yeah, push back against that.

 

Laura

Give yourself space to feel those big emotions and grief.

 

Alicia

Yeah. Cry and cry and cry if that's helpful for you. Yeah. I think as well if you are needing external help, to see someone and talk with someone about where you're up to, don't let things get out of hand. I know I'm guilty of that, but yeah, it's tricky to care and love your family when you're falling apart at the seams. Being community, in your church. If you have a women's group, let women just surround you with love. And when people offer to make you food, just say yes. Don't try to be brave and whatever. Just say yes. Let people love you and care for you.

 

Laura

Keep going to that God of comfort.

 

Alicia

Yeah. Yeah.