Ask Anything! Season 1 Finale
Interview with Laura Smith and Rosie Gallagher
March 29, 2021
AUSCAST
TRANSCRIPTION
Rosie
Welcome to Unsung Stories. My name is Rosie, and I'm here tonight to interview your regular host, Laura, who will be answering a bunch of your questions. As always, please subscribe and review and share this podcast with your friends. Welcome to your own podcast, Laura.
Laura
Thank you for having me, Rosie.
Rosie
No worries. Can you tell us what's this episode all about? How did we come up with the questions we're going to be asking you?
Laura
Yes, I thought for our wrapping up season one, we could just have a little bit of fun. I put it out there on Instagram, what questions people would like to know. And so this is how we got tonight's questions.
Rosie
Oh! Sounds good. So before we get stuck into those questions, can you share a little bit about you, your family, what everyday life looks like for you?
Laura
Yeah. So I'm Laura. I live on the Central Coast and I am married to Leon. I really should have looked at how long we've been married for, I think nearly eight years, maybe nine, eight, 2013.
Rosie
So coming up on eight this year.
Laura
Yep, eight years. We have four kids. Jai is six, Morgan is four, Elliana is three, and Edie is seven months.
Rosie
Bang, bang, bang. Nice and close together.
Laura
And everyday life. Well, I'm a school mom, so I've learnt the last year and a bit that school is not the glory days that you think they will be, because they're not at school for very long. No, it is great. So yes, school run and church during the week, catching up with friends and just hanging out with my little people.
Rosie
Nice. And probably one of the questions you've been getting the most from friends or from followers is, "Why did you start this podcast?"
Laura
I think there is a need for Australian voices in this platform, and particularly Australian Christian women. And I kind of came up with it because I love podcasts myself. And I just found everything that I was consuming had these ideal Christian women. So the ones who just have kids who can recite entire Psalms by the time they're five and they have these amazingly curated Bible studies and these beautiful marriages. And I'm just like, I then look at my family and we are Christians who love Jesus and are seeking to follow Him. But that's not what it looks like for us.
Rosie
Yeah.
Laura
And when I chat to real women. That's not what they're experiencing either. So I really wanted to offer a place that just gives solidarity. We all suck, but we try, and we try and point our kids to Jesus.
Rosie
Real life.
Laura
Real life. Yeah.
Rosie
Yeah. That's awesome. So given that this podcast is about real life and you're not perfect, and your kids aren't perfect, there are lots of questions here that people have asked about what your Christian walk looks like, and how you do that with your kids. Because I think people are probably wondering, like, "Oh, this Laura chick, she must be amazing. She runs this podcast, and she knows all the answers and she can answer all my questions."
Laura
Oh, goodness. That's so far from the truth.
Rosie
So let's like, yeah. Let's uncover some of those things and hear the real Laura. So first question here is, "What does quiet time look like for you with your kids?"
Laura
Yeah. Now, I wasn't sure if this is quiet time, as in like, really when you say quiet time and kids in one sentence, what does that mean? So I wasn't sure if it meant what does Bible time with my kids look like or what does Bible time look for myself. So I kind of was thinking about both. When we talk about saying Bible time with my kids, I think there are so many resources and Bible studies and Christian TV and all these other great things. But at the end of the day, they're not what's going to save my kids. Even sitting down and doing them with my kids is going to be helpful.
But that's not going to guarantee that I'm going to have Christian kids. It was as I started trying to do these things with my family and seeing that it ended up in tears and chaos, that it made me really evaluate my heart. It actually really radically changed my parenting. I couldn't find anything that really worked. I realised that I couldn't rely on a Bible study, but I had to put in effort. And I knew that I was not going to live up to the standard that I wanted to live up to. So I think that there is helpful and healthy habits and instruments that we can use, and that I'd definitely recommend.
But I think I would really highlight that they are just instruments to help us as we're pointing our kids to Jesus. And I can't comment for older ages, like my oldest is only six, but I really think it comes down to us. And that our kids are watching us and they're modelling themselves off us until they choose to live their own way. You might have an amazing book that teaches your kids about repentance, but I think hearing Mummy say, "Honey, I'm really sorry I did not choose to talk to you how God wants me to talk to you then. I chose to do what I wanted to do and talk rudely. And I didn't obey Jesus. And I've asked Him to forgive me, but will you forgive me?"
And I think having that kind of language and posture with our kids is going to be so much more powerful. Them seeing mommy with her Bible open or mommy singing praises to Jesus. Or mommy going to prayer when needing comfort or reminding them of truth in everyday moments of life. I think that's the stuff that they're going to see and remember and be shaped by. More than a great Christian TV show. I would just really encourage everyone to invite their kids into their life.
Rosie
That's so helpful to hear because I have a two-and-a-half-year-old. And the other day I was thinking, "Oh, my gosh, I need to bring more Christian, you know, things into our daily routine. And I need like Bible stories or sing more Colin Buchanan songs or something." I messaged my Bible study and I said, "How can I like do more Christian, God things with my two-and-a-half-year-old?" And one of the women actually said, "You know what? They're going to learn so much more about God, by the way that you talk about Him and the way that you do your walk with God than anything else."
So by you know, every time you see a beautiful sunset saying, "Gosh, God made a beautiful sunset for us tonight, didn't he?" Like just injecting it into your every day and not making it like a formal thing, not making it like a, now after dinner we sit down and read the Bible. There's nothing wrong with that, of course, but just making it a natural part of your conversation.
Laura
And I think we're to make disciples, we're not just Christians at set points of the day, like when we read the Bible. We love Jesus and we orientate our lives to God at every moment. And so, yeah, stuff like the sunset that we are like giving the praise back to God.
Rosie
Yes. Yeah.
Laura
I was just thinking, when my eldest was little, I was like, "Oh, he's not going to watch bad things on television." You know, I actually think that it's inviting our kids into our decision-making process and just helping them shape the lens through what we think through. So, "Honey, I actually don't like that show and how they're using their words. They're talking rudely. God asked us to be careful with our words. Do you think this is a show we want to be watching or can you think of a different show that would be fun and speak how God wants us to talk?"
And I think we're trying to shape the way they view the world and the way they orientate themselves. And how they live under God and how He wants us to live.
Rosie
Not just telling them what to think, but inviting them to consider why they think that way.
Laura
Yeah. Have a discussion around it, not just go, "Oh, that shows awful. Look how terrible they're talking. We're not going to have that." But no encouraging their thought process on things.
Rosie
Yeah.
Laura
So I guess my long answer short is that I don't think quiet time with kids is actually going to be quiet or fruitful the way we want it to be. And I would encourage people use all the resources and tools as they want, but I would just say model Jesus in every aspect of your life. And that's actually harder because you realise how it's just a real boot up the bum for us I think.
Rosie
Especially if it wasn't modelled to you when you were a child. Like if you've grown up with parents who weren't Christian or didn't have that kind of approach.
Laura
Yes.
Rosie
And we're all sinful. It just certainly doesn't come naturally a lot of the time.
Laura
And also motherhood is, I think, a real catalyst for people, where their crap's going to be brought up. Like you're going to be quite possibly seeing your anger for the first time or your impatience or your selfishness or all of these things that we go, "I did not know that was in there." And, you know, I thought sin was just not sleeping with someone or not swearing or all of these things.
Becoming a mom has been the thing that's taught me that sin is not me dropping the F-bomb, it's my heart posture and so really working through how I need to be living as a Christian and how I need to be following Jesus, because they're going to be copying that. And I want them to be copying someone who's trying to be like Jesus and not the mom who's just trying to have this perfect formula to raise Christian kids.
Rosie
Yeah, that's really helpful. And I think also leads hopefully into the next question, which is, "What has been some of the most helpful habits that you've put in place to be close to God in motherhood? What are some things that you found helpful in your walk?"
Laura
Yeah, honestly, the first thing that popped into my head was put your phone away. Like no one's really saying that, but put your phone away.
Rosie
Yeah.
Laura
I think helpful things, for me, we've heard on the show a lot and lots of people are similar. But it rings true for me too, is that it's not a head knowledge. It's this heart thing. And so, in saying that, I would say fill your head with knowledge. Like go to God, but don't read your Bible in a, "I need to know more." Read the Bible in, "I am spending time with God." And, you know, know yourself. So schedule it in or make it achievable. Like you're not actually probably going to have a half an hour Bible study over breakfast, or [inaudible 00:11:10] if you can.
And you might not get up half an hour earlier than your kids because I'm not getting up at 4:30. I'm like, that's not good for anyone. So do what you need to do to not be sinful, because I actually think the more tired I am, the more prone to sin I am. But yeah, schedule it in or make it achievable. Like I aim for five minutes, because then you're not going to be cranky and livid with anyone for interrupting your half an hour Bible time because you need to make breakfast. I think that's been really helpful. Things like listening to the Bible being read has being helpful. So apps like Dwell or even the free Bible app on your phone, and the choices you make. So I know that music is a real influence for me.
I think there's nothing wrong with listening to pop culture music, like I love it. But I do notice that for some reason I'm more prone to sin if I'm just filling my head with the world. And so I would say similarly to my phone, if I'm just on TikTok or Instagram, I start thinking the way that the world is thinking. And so for me, it comes down to choices. Choosing to put on Christian music, choosing to read over Netflix is a big one for me, and another one is who I choose to spend time with. Which as a Christian, is quite tricky because we do want to be living on mission.
You know, we don't want to just be in these closed secular community. We want to be part of the world and a witness. But I am super vulnerable at different stages of my life. And I know that sometimes I need to surround myself with people who are going to pick me up and point me to Jesus. And like I suck at all of those things. Like, that's the ideal. Like don't hear, "Oh, wow, how great." Like, that's the intent.
Rosie
Yeah. But that's so helpful. There are things that are very simple. Simple but also really hard, like putting the phone away, like the very first thing you said. Like I'm like as soon as you said that I thought, "Oh my gosh, I'm on my phone all the time. I'm filling my head with content from goodness knows where, about goodness knows what. And it's not actually building me up." Just something as simple as that or choosing to read over Netflix. Yeah, it's so true.
Laura
And I think I would caution with that, is that motherhood is hard and going on your phone is a very easy way to switch off and dissociate and escape. Which I still think doesn't justify it. We still need to fight against that. If you are finding motherhood or the screaming or just the hardness of it all overwhelming for you, and going to your phone takes away a bit of that pain.
I'm not a psychologist or counsellor in any way, shape or form. I do think from my own experience is that's actually indicating that something's going on for me. And rather than processing my emotions and working through the hard stuff, I'm choosing to switch off. So I would recommend anyone get a counsellor or a psychologist and get some help. That's just my, "Hey, no one ever really says that on these podcasts so there's my-"
Rosie
Yeah.
Laura
"Someone saying it."
Rosie
But it is a bit of an addiction, isn't it? Being on the phone. Like it really does feed that addictive. I don't know what I'm saying, but it is. It is a bit addictive, and you have [crosstalk 00:14:40]
Laura
It's designed to be addictive.
Rosie
Yeah, notifications and, yeah. And I think about what the kind of content that I scroll through. And I'm like, how much of that was actually edifying or encouraging or uplifting? Like the number of times I just scroll, my anxiety is triggered because of something I've seen. I'm like, oh.
Laura
Or you're angry. How do you think that? Like oh my goodness.
Rosie
Yes.
Laura
Yeah.
Rosie
So I think I-
Laura
Don't hear this and go, "Oh I've got to get off my phone." Just fill your life with good stuff. Fill your life with things that you enjoy. Go out in the garden, go for a walk, laugh with your kids. Don't take away and shame yourself or anything like that. Just go, "How can I have fun? How can I create something? How can I enjoy this moment?" And start there.
Rosie
It's hard to like, this is off script, but like for me, particularly right now, I'm in my third trimester with my second child and I'm so tired of anything. There's not much else I have capacity for other than like literally turning on Friends on TV or something. And there's nothing wrong with that. But when it becomes something that I literally feed myself every single night of the week, "Like what else can I do? What other things?"
Laura
I think be kind to yourself though Rosie. Like you're pregnant and you've got a toddler and you're tired.
Rosie
It doesn't even make me feel. You don't have to put this in the podcast at all.
Laura
No that's fine.
Rosie
But it doesn't make me feel rested either. Like watching TV doesn't make me feel rested. I get to the end of the night. I'm like, "I feel like overloaded with different information. And maybe I should just read a book."
Laura
Or chat to Matt.
Rosie
Yeah, Matt and I are so bad at that. We sit on our phones.
Laura
So are we yeah, that's it. We're like, all right.
Rosie
He plays chess on his phone.
Laura
That's my husband. Maybe they should play each other.
Rosie
Well, I did a few times. I versed him in chess and just like I always end up in tears because I was like, "I don't understand the rules."
Laura
That's so good.
Rosie
But I agree, we should find better ways to spend our evenings. Sidenote. OK. Moving on.
Laura
No. Just, you are in a really hard season. I mean, I feel like I just had Edie. Like it goes fast. And so I was just you on the couch. Like feel gross, but I actually just think that's just pregnancy and it sucks. And it's nine months of awfulness and in a few months you'll be like, "Oh Rosie's back."
Rosie
Oh yes. Here I am.
Laura
And then think about what you feel like doing. Because at the moment, your body's got enough.
Rosie
Unless I get a real witching hour baby like Archie was. [crosstalk 00:17:33] Suspend my evenings.
Laura
Then you can enjoy going for a walk.
Rosie
Yeah, that's true. Yeah. So what then are some of your favourite passages that you turn to when you are in the midst of that struggle with motherhood?
Laura
I really wish I had my Bible in front of me right now. But the two that sprung to mind was Hebrew's 12, which I love. And Matthew 11. So Hebrew's 12 is just talking about running a good race and struggling with sin. And also how being disciplined by God is how we share in His holiness. And it produces a harvest of righteousness. Which I find such a comfort in this really hard season.
And the rest of the chapter is so good. But I just feel like it's such an encouragement for this season of life and like it saying, "Just keep going Laurs. Like fix your eyes on Jesus and don't grow weary and don't lose heart and keep being intentional with your kids and keep wrestling with your sin. And like, God is your father who's teaching you in all of this. You know, He's working in you, He's growing you and like, it's all worth it. And it is hard, and it is refining you. But it is good." And so just the whole chapter, like it keeps going on about I think, it's like fear and something else. It's just a good chapter for motherhood. Yeah, just read it.
And the other I love is Matthew 11, like 28-ish and the, "Come to me all who are weary and burdened and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me. For I am gentle and humble in heart and you will find rest for your souls. My yoke is easy, and my burden is light." I'm just like, "Oh, so comforting." Like, I just find it a really helpful reminder to come to God with my weariness and my overwhelming feelings. Like, He's got me, He's my God and He loves me.
And I don't need to carry the load of motherhood all by myself. And I feel like it's my job to raise little Jesus loving people and great citizens and all the rest. But if I only rely on me, it's going to be awful.
Rosie
Yeah.
Laura
Because I am unequal to the task and it is a huge burden to carry. But God invites me to come to Him and lean on Him and rest in Him. And He's the one that does the good work.
Rosie
Yeah. That's so good. And He's the one that can see the whole picture. Like we only see today, and we can't see the future and we don't know what's to come. But God has all of eternity mapped out. And yeah, He's far, far better placed to manage all of our worries than we are.
Laura
And they're His. Their relationship with God is their relationship. And we can do all we can to encourage that and foster that and model that and point them in the right direction. But God's the one that's going to save them. And we're not actually part of their salvation story. I mean, we might be as an instrument, as old people usually have instruments. But it's not me that's going to save them.
Rosie
Yeah.
Laura
Which is very humbling.
Rosie
Yeah, that's right. You have a really important role to play, but at the end of the day, you're not going to be the one who decides whether they're safe. [crosstalk 00:21:02]
Laura
Yeah. And we have to be faithful with what we've been given, like God has entrusted us with a lot. And so we want to be doing a good job and shepherd them well.
Rosie
Yeah.
Laura
But I think I'm a control freak who wants to guarantee the outcome.
Rosie
Absolutely. Especially for our children who we love and we want the best for.
Laura
Yes.
Rosie
Yeah.
Laura
So that's yeah. That's comforting for me.
Rosie
Cool. So what do you do when you're lacking zeal in motherhood?
Laura
Oh just go to the beach. Like I realise that a typical Christian answer is like, "Oh I go and have quiet time with the Lord." But that doesn't usually work for me if I really am in this place of, "This is really hard." So I'd encourage people to care for you so that you can care for others. Often if I am lacking zeal, it's because I am completely at the end of my well, and exhausted.
So it's okay to just take a minute and celebrate life and enjoy the good gifts that God's given us. Like praise Him for them and take a step back and marvel at what He's done in the works of His hand and reflect on His creativity. And this is a little bit different. But I'm sure I'm not the only mom who, like, keeps track of their kids to be making sure they're like the most healthy selves. So I like, "Oh, too much screen time or not enough messy play or more time outdoors, or structured learning activity and healthy meals and special treat here and there. And have they had enough sensory playing?" You know, but do we do that for ourselves? I actually think-
Rosie
Yeah, so true.
Laura
I think that we are to turn our hearts to the Lord, but I don't necessarily think that's to sit down with our Bible and a cup of tea and that will be giving us instant energy. Parent ourselves a little bit in that moment. And I mean, I'm so imperfect at this too. But yeah, I'd like to think, am I outside enough or am I eating food that's going to fuel me or am I sitting in awe of God's creation or am I using the gifts that He's given me? Am I being creative? And I think even the most boring jobs like an accountant can be creative. Look at creative accounting and how amazing it is.
I just think spending time with God and in His word is so important. But I think spending time with God is not just reading our Bible.
Rosie
Yeah.
Laura
Often, I find like if my hands are in the dirt of my garden, I'm actually saying biblical truths play out in the way I weed, and prune, and seasons of sowing and harvesting and all these analogies. It's all pointing me to God and offering just richness and fullness in understanding His word. Going for a walk and getting some endorphins and some energy. And then I'm like on a happy endorphin high and love serving my family or.
Rosie
Yeah. And the more you do that for yourself, like what we were talking about before, about teaching your children about the truths of God. The more you're doing that for yourself, the more you're naturally going to do that with your kids.
Laura
Yeah, and that's what I was going to say. Like people would go, "Oh, you've got four kids. How do you do that?" Well, you don't have to be alone to take care of yourself. Your kids can garden with you or you can walk with kids in a pram. Or you can bake. Or you can laugh, and you can sing. And if it is one of those days where you truly feel like you're at the end of your well and you just can't.
And if you can't get childcare and if you can't get away, make a coffee and put on the TV for the kids, and just, just pray. I really think God meets you in those moments and those days are hard, but just pray.
Rosie
OK, so this is a bit different. Not so much a motherhood related question, but do you have friends who hold different religious beliefs?
Laura
I don't have friends who actually hold different religious beliefs, as in a Hindu or Buddhist. So I have friends who don't believe there's a God or friends who believe there's a God but don't really want to think it through. And I think the closest I would have to someone with a largely different worldview would be my gay and lesbian friends. But that's not an actual religion. And so I kind of put it down to where I live. Like I live in a very white, very Australian.
I mean, less than it used to be. But we're like laid back kind of place where life's good and religion's not really a priority. So I do suspect that that influences it. But no, I don't.
And I feel like that question probably is coming from being on mission kind of perspective. Whether it's my friends who have a different religious belief or, you know, just like a largely different worldview to me. If you asked me 10 years ago, I would be like, "No, I've got to be constantly preaching the gospel and telling them about Jesus and showing them the truth and showing them the right way." And all good intent. But I think as I've gotten older, I've learnt that we're playing a long game.
It's not, "Oh, they're just so different to me and my friends for a year or two. And we walk our separate ways." But to actually go "Nah, they really do hold a different worldview to me. But I'm going to stay with this and I'm going to be a friend and hopefully over a lifetime, they go, 'Actually the way you chose to live is different. And there's something in it.'" And I'm really clinging to that with some people in my life that, yeah, do life together. And they see that the way we make our decisions is, there's fruit there. That's my hope.
Rosie
Yeah. So turning to marriage, which is-
Laura
Oh no.
Rosie
Which is. Yeah. Your marriage can, I guess, affect parenthood a lot as well. How do you and your husband, Leon, prioritise and invest in your marriage when you are in the midst of babyhood and toddlerhood and early childhood? And do you have some favourite tips or practises for how to prioritise your marriage?
Laura
Oh. Yes. But I actually feel like I'm totally not the person to answer this. And I also think it's the kind of question where you could easily have the typical Christian-ese answer. "We love date night and I have sex with him all the time, and He's so satisfied, and the children and I give Daddy our best and welcome him home with a kiss and a smile." In the spirit of Unsung Stories, that's just not what ours looks like.
There's two keywords in the question that was just asked, and that is exhausted and motherhood. What my husband and I are actually pretty good at is recognising the season and the stage of life that we're in. That we're really feeling the limits of this time. Not just the time and resource limitations, but just like our physical and mental energy as well. We rarely go out for dinner together. I actually asked my husband, when I knew this question was coming, and I said, "Hey, honey, when did we last go out for dinner?" And we actually couldn't remember. And we think it was before Elliana was born. Well, maybe after.
Rosie
What?
Laura
Yeah.
Rosie
You are joking.
Laura
I think three years.
Rosie
Oh. So what are your tips then if not [inaudible 00:28:15].
Laura
Yes. So [crosstalk 00:28:17] but don't you hear out there, the tips to having a great Christian marriage is having date night? And so I just want to say you can have a great marriage and not have date night. Like, I probably wouldn't take a leaf out of our book on that one. And we're going to go out for dinner soon. We're going to find a babysitter. What's working for us in this season is actually giving each other space to be their own person. So he goes to the gym. I've got this podcast. We're both very for each other in giving each other space. And that life's not tit for tat.
So, he lets me sleep in every Saturday and Sunday. It's not like we share it or take turns. And I let him go to the gym every day. And he might cook dinner more than me, but I'm the one who make sure there's food in the house and there's just no keeping score. We just want to love and serve our family. So if he's going, "Hey, I'm really tired." "Hey, honey, you take the nap, I'll take the kids out and you have a nap today."
Or like I said, there's no keeping score or making sure it's equal or even. We both just want to make sure that each other is taken care of. And so he puts me first. I put him first. And I don't know how you can actually put that in place other than you might need to be the person that goes, "Alright I'm going to serve him."
Rosie
It's interesting because there is this real big movement, and it's a good one in many cases around, you know, shared responsibility in the home. Like you share the job, chores, you share the jobs. And is it exactly 50/50? And whilst that is a helpful movement, because we obviously want to be. I mean, women.
Laura
Well, he's a person living in the house too.
Rosie
Right. Of course he's an adult living in the house.
Laura
Yes.
Rosie
All of that, if we are so obsessive about dividing everything equally all the time and it being, as you say, really tit-for-tat, that's not conducive to like a healthy marriage. Like a marriage is about compromise and sacrifice and loving the other person and giving yourself to the other person and serving the other person. And that doesn't always look like tit for tat or 50/50 in every way.
Laura
And if you're both doing that, if you both wanted to love oh my goodness, it's so beautiful. I would caution if you just feel like, "OK, the answer is me just having to be His servant." Well, no. You're in a marriage, you're in a partnership. And maybe it just means you guys might need to get some help from a counsellor who can. Like I love counsellors. They just troubleshoot everything for you, and you have a safe space to talk through things.
But, yeah, it's just, it's so beautiful. And I think that's Ephesians 5, when you're talking about Jesus loving His church and laying His life down for it. And that's how husbands to love his wife by laying his life down for her, and a wife submitting to that. It is a really beautiful picture when it works well.
Rosie
Yeah.
Laura
And I mean, the only other thing that I can think to comment on because it's under marriage would be sex. And I can't believe I am actually publicly talking about it. But, I think that sex is not about filling each other's needs. It's not about, what do we say sex is about? Like sex is not about an orgasm, like it's about a connection. And I think that servant heart and that loving attitude comes into the bedroom. So it's not just filling his needs or him filling mine or preventing lust or other reasons you can hear around the place. Whether that's in church or in our culture. I think it's just about that connecting. And to note that in this season it is really hard.
You might be pregnant, you might have torn really badly and it's not the same for you anymore. Or you might be breastfeeding, or you might be co-sleeping and bed sharing and worn out, touched out, exhausted. And I get that.
So it might be best for you to actually take sex off the cards for that season and just focus on intimacy. Because you can still be loving and intimate and connecting if he's sleeping in the toddler’s bed. Just focus on that connection and that being a team and being for each other. And I think that will do you wonders. And sex is important for a marriage. It is a great gift that God has given and we need to stew it well. But I think just don't focus on, you know, it's not just about getting off.
Rosie
I think that's really helpful advice. Yeah. And there's so many ways to be close to your husband that are not physical. But obviously the physical really helps. And you said-
Laura
But in a season where it's painful or it's uncomfortable, don't push your body because you feel like it's a wifely duty.
Rosie
Yeah.
Laura
You are a person too. And hopefully you have a loving husband that doesn't want to push that. But there is this underlying guilt sometimes when you're like seven months pregnant, I feel like my vagina is about to fall out after being kicked by a donkey and I'm supposed to have sex right now.
Rosie
Yeah. And it might even like create some bitterness for you against your husband, and towards your husband. And that's not going to be helpful for your marriage.
Laura
No, no. So just focus on connecting and intimacy. Use those words and you can do them outside the bedroom.
Rosie
Yeah, that's true. You know, I am in that season of being pregnant. I have noticed that is so interrelated to like our emotional and spiritual connection, that for the next few days afterwards, we are in such a good place with each other because we've been physically intimate. It's so strange. It's like, yes, we need to talk to each other. Yes, we need to do all those things that you said because I agree they are all so important. And there are seasons in life and there are, yes, phases that you go through. You have to look at them all together as opposed to, "This month, you know, this has happened or this hasn't happened." I'm saying. Do you know what I mean, like?
Laura
Yes. Yeah, I get what you're saying. And I think it is such a good thing. And can you see God's creativity and His design in it? That we get these beautiful bonding hormones through this physical act, and it's something like he's the only person that we have this relationship with. We're not going to have this connection with other people. And so it's a joy to celebrate and enjoy the good hormones that God's designed, like oxytocin and these beautiful, loving, bonding things that have an ongoing effect.
Rosie
Yeah.
Laura
Oh, if you are thinking about sex in marriage and thinking through your relationship and wanting to know more, a great resource that I love is "Java with Julie" It's a podcast which is an outreach of authentic intimacy. And Julie just does this wonderful job of deconstructing historical church beliefs around sex that might not necessarily be biblical. She has great psychologists and sex therapists that are Christian, and just looking at sex and intimacy and relationships all through a Christian lens.
And she's been so helpful for me as I think through this in my marriage. She's got a few good books. Linda Dilo is a colleague of hers, and they're just two very wise women in this area, if you want to know more.
Rosie
OK, this next question, I'm not entirely sure what it's asking. "What was your experience of transition with each of your babies?" Does that mean labour?
Yeah, I am going to assume as you go from no kids to one kid, to two kids. Because transitioned in any labour's very horrible and that's assuming that I did have natural labours. So I'm assuming it's the more kids you add to the family.
Rosie
That makes no sense.
Laura
So I found zero to one really hard because I didn't realise I had anxiety. I was so focused on being the perfect mom and what other people thought of me, I had no idea what I was doing. So I just struggled with feeling like I was the world's biggest failure and that everyone thought that I was a crap mom. From one to two, I started having panic attacks and got depressed. And it was just like, honestly, a really hard time of my life, just family, and we bought a business and financially it was hard.
And we actually had a really close friend pass away. It was the first time that I had lost someone who I really wanted to be alive still. She was just such an integral, I'm going to cry. She was just such an integral part of my community as well. So my entire community was shattered. That was just a really hard season. And sex was really hard for us after my second baby. So I was stitched up not very well. I just felt like these cracks in my marriage because I wanted to have sex and my husband wanted to. But it was painful.
And yeah, I just feel like everything cracked that year. When my son was nine months old, I honestly was like, "Okay, God, just help me have sex tonight because I need to save my marriage. And that one time we got pregnant with my daughter. My heart goes out to anyone who hears that and is trying, because that's really hard to hear that happens so easily for people. I also wrestled with for the first time, having a baby that I just actually didn't really want to have. For nine months going, "I know that I'm going to love this baby." But it was really hard.
Yeah, I think it was the year that cracked me, and the year that made me really choose how I want to live. Because either I'm going all out for Jesus or, you know, is this really the good life?
When my daughter Elliana arrived, her name means, "My God has answered." He really did answer a lot of prayers with my beautiful girl. And she was a really healing baby for me, a really healing birth. It was at the beginning of a new year. There's just so many cracks that were healed that year. I was a confident mom, I didn't really care what people thought. So when I got comments at the shops about my kids, I did. It didn't knock me. I was just like whatever.
And I had been seeing a counsellor for about a year at that point. And so I had learnt how to process my emotions and survive better. Eliana was a real answer to prayer and a real gift for me. And then I think transitioning from three to four, I'm still doing it. I didn't really notice it that much harder because once you've got three, you've learnt that you can't do everything for everyone. Two kids, I think it's really hard because you can kind of do everything for each kid. By three, you've learnt how to go, "So sorry, pal. You're on your own."
You know, we need to learn some self-help, and patience and other hard lessons to learn. But helpful. I actually think I'm in that really hard season of refinement. I think babies do that to me. So I'm like exhausted, like I've never felt before and actually think I'm on the brink of actual exhaustion.
I don't know if I'm getting anxious and actually should start seeing my GP, but that's where I'm at there. But I know that this season is not forever and I can look back on each transition with my kids and go, "Oh, goodness, that was an intense season of refinement. But that is where God worked the most in me. And it was so hard, like so hard. But the growth I saw my character after each of those hard things. Look, I just I'm really clinging to that and trusting that God is growing me through this hard season that I'm in at the moment."
Rosie
That's so encouraging. So good. So with your kids and going through each of those transitions and having them quite close together, really practical question, "How do you discipline your children, and do they get along with each other? And how do you cope if they're not getting along? And how do you teach them to be kind to each other?" All wrapped up in this one question?
Laura
Well, that kind of question is like how many different ways is there to skin a cat? Though, I think different ages, different stages. Like, of course, my kids fight and argue, and whinge and bicker and hit and bite and love and play and create and really do love each other. I mean, my two older ones are boys, and they've just started this wrestling for fun stage, which actually never ends up staying fun.
Rosie
Never.
Laura
You know, I can't handle the noise, so I've been putting blue tack in my ears, so that's pretty helpful.
Rosie
Oh, my gosh.
Laura
I think we have pretty normal rules in our house. You know, don't hit. Don't bite. Be respectful. Don't scream. That kind of thing. At the end of the day, I really have to remind myself that we're playing the long game. It comes back to what I was talking before, but it comes to modelling well. If I don't want my child to be yelling at me, well, he's actually yelling at me.
I mean, I'm sure he would be yelling anyway. But I struggle with yelling, too. I really do try and keep that in my mind and coach him through that. And I do think that's where I see modelling, repentance and modelling. Like being humble in those moments to go "I was wrong." Really does help. And I'm actually just in the last few weeks getting to see fruit of that and getting to see fruit of the hard work that you put in when it comes to how we react to things.
And I think a big thing is listening. So when your kid is even two, three, having those big tantrums, what are they trying to communicate and why is this behaviour happening? If you're three and you really want to take your doll and mommy says "No." That is a big, huge pain. And so I think instead of just being like, "Oh, I said, put your doll back, we got like." Which is, you know, my normal one to respond. "I said, we can't take it. Listen to me. Why is no one listening? Why is no one obedient?" And I'm going, "Oh honey, it is so hard when we can't take our doll with us. I would love you to but unfortunately we can't. How about we leave Dolly here and have a." You know, that sort of thing. But also say don't buy into one parenting camp because both sides will take it too far.
Read widely, take the best bits that works for you and your family. And I think flex. So you have your rules of how you want to go about things but flex and go, "Actually, yeah. I don't see why you couldn't take your doll with you today. I just said no, but there's actually no valid reason, of course, bring dolly with us." I think in all of it is to check your own heart. When our kids are having behaviour that needs discipline or not getting along or fighting all of that stuff, it brings up the crud. Well, at least it does for me. It puts my brain into overload and I just get angry or frustrated or yelling or all these things that I don't like doing.
And I would just encourage you to think through. Why are you reacting like that? Is there something deeper that's going on? And get counselling. I feel like I've said it a few times about having someone help you go through your thought processes and why you think and react the way you do. Help you understand your kids and why they think and act and react. It's just a really helpful exercise. And over time, like it might feel like you're speaking a different language at first, but it's really, really helpful.
Rosie
I love that point about like modelling to your kids as a form of discipline, not even as a form. Well, it is. It's a teaching method I suppose. You're modelling. Because especially in those early years, I mean, I'm sure in the later years too, teenage kids and even adult kids, but especially in those early years, like you're the one that they're looking to, to figure out social norms and what's acceptable and how do we behave in this circumstance. So kids really do model their parents. And I find my two-year-old, if I'm cranky with the dog, his behaviour towards the dog is shocking.
Like I don't hit the dog or anything, you know? But if I just get a bit cranky with him and say, "Oh, no, actually go Frank." Or, "Stop barking." Or if I'm having that attitude towards my dog, my son will come up and be like, "Yeah, Frankie." And like, whack him across the head. And I'm like, "Whoa mate, you just took it a step too far."
Laura
I can behave like that. But you can't.
Rosie
That's exactly right. Like we need to empathise with our kids.
Laura
Yeah and that's what we're teaching them. And that was something for me that I was, "Hang on. Why can I act on impulse and how I want to?"
Rosie
And also yeah that point about being empathetic and understanding that the problems or the grievances or the issues that your kids have with seemingly really small and insignificant things, to them, that's their world is so much smaller than ours. So those things, of course, they hold so much more value or meaning or importance, and they're going to get way more upset about those things. And we need to try and keep that perspective and empathise with them. I love that point.
Laura
I think you can still empathise, but still set direction and still lead them in the way that needs to be done for the family. We can empathise that they bit because they have these overwhelming emotions. But there still are consequences for our actions.
Rosie
Yeah.
Laura
And so, I mean, natural consequences in parenting are my favourite. Having empathy and seeing it through their eyes is a really great starting point to come from and to teach them how to, you know. I mean, so much of that age is controlling emotions and managing their body. But I still feel the same when I get really mad that you are not listening to me. I want to kick something. And it is you know, I actually teach my kids that is such a normal feeling for your body.
Go into your room, grab your pillow and just like, hit your bed so hard with your pillow, like, get that emotion out. Because it's good, like have an outlet. I think the last thing that I'd offer on that is, look, I've spent the last few weeks literally crying to my friends, going, like, "How am I supposed to model calmness and patience when they've sucked all the calm and the patience out of me?"
And if it helps, no one's really offered me any [inaudible 00:47:06]. But just rather solidarity that it's the same for them. One friend did suggest that I lower my expectations and said that, "I shouldn't be surprised when they don't listen and don't do something I ask them. And actually be surprised when they do you do it." And that's easier said than done when I desperately want them to put their shoes on and get in the car. But I've got to expect in the morning that it's going to take 10 minutes to get shoes on and be pleasantly surprised when they just go straight away.
Rosie
So true. That's such a yeah. And that was to your point too, about being flexible. Does it really matter if we're ten minutes rather than having a screaming match over you putting your shoes? You still need to listen to me. You still need to put your shoes on. You still need to get in the car. But if this whole process, it's going to take 15 minutes longer because we're working through something here, that's actually OK.
In that moment, check your heart, because are you so set on getting out the door so that you're not late and saving face with someone? Or can you actually take that ten minutes to work through this with your kids, teach them well, not scream and yell and, you know, put your needs above them. Because at the end of the day, most of the time I'm rushing because I'm trying to, well, school's a little bit different, but yeah. Even save face with school that I'm not that mom that's late and having to do the late switch three days a week. Where is your heart actually in all of this?
Rosie
Yeah. That's a good one. Last question. It's so random, but kind of like it's a question that we ask ourselves every single day and that is, "What should I cook for dinner?"
Laura
Oh, that's so funny. Whatever causes the least amount of fights and mess on the floor.
Rosie
Nice one. So no Couscous.
Laura
Honestly, if you cannot manage more than Weetabix, give your kid Weetabix for dinner.
Rosie
You know what? My son like, loves a good smoothie for breakfast and I stuff in the spinach and the fruit and the Greek yoghurt and oats and all the good stuff. And so I'm like if you don't eat a full dinner, you kind of had it at breakfast. Can we just look at the day as a whole as opposed to meal by meal?
Laura
Look at the day as a whole. Look at the week as a whole. They typically will pack it in in the morning and then by dinnertime we're arguing. And it's like just give up. They're going to go to bed. It's not going to really affect them.
Rosie
And mealtimes are such good quality family time. Like, let's come back to that as opposed to what you're eating, how much you've eaten of it, and whether we got to the end of the meal with everything on your plate gone. Because that's just so not the point of mealtimes.
Laura
If your husband's home for dinner, if he can be involved in making it fun. I've done the cut out the shapes and put it in the muffin tin, and all of that, and still doesn't eat it. But as soon as Daddy comes out with his fun tongs that daddy got, and these muffin cases that Daddy put rice in. It's all have, fun and oh, it's changed our dinner time. Just like let's have dinner being about fun and connecting as a family. I mean, I hear the ideal here. We still it ends up being [inaudible 00:50:11] most nights, but we do aim at just keep it fun. Yes, eat. And we don't do desert in our family. So that's a little bit easier on nights when we are desperate to bribe with desert.
Rosie
Yeah, that's awesome.
Laura
Thanks for interviewing me.
Rosie
You're welcome. It's been fun to be on the other side of it.
Laura
I must say it's not been fun being on this side. And it's made me really love and appreciate everyone who's come on so far, and how vulnerable, and how much thought and effort people have put into this show. It's just so kind and encouraging. And listening to the show.
Rosie
Well, thanks, Laura, and thanks for being vulnerable with us. I'm sure everyone's been really encouraged to hear a little bit more about you and your own journey with motherhood. And kind of gives, I don't know, a little bit more depth and insight into the interviews that are to come, or that we'll go back and listen to again. Knowing a little bit more about who you are. So in the spirit of Unsung Stories, Laura, could you pray for us to finish?
Laura
Yeah, for sure.