Laura Smith

So Beth, welcome to Unsung Stories.  Nice, nice to be here Just so that our listeners can get to know you a little bit more, would you mind telling us a bit about you and your family and what everyday life looks like for you?

 

Beth Braga

Excellent question. So, I'm, I'm married to Chris, and he's a minister of a church in Western Sydney. And we have eight children. Seven are living and one is with the Lord. And so Jonathan was still born. And then we have Rose who's 23 and he she's married to Isaac, and then Peter, Abby, Jack, Tim, Matthew and Alice. That sounded like I had to think about it. But that is the children.

 

Laura Smith

Lovely, that's awesome. How old's your youngest?

 

Beth Braga

She's eight.

 

Laura Smith

Oh, my goodness, you are just Superwoman.

 

Beth Braga

I don't know about that. Crazy, perhaps?

 

Laura Smith

A little bit. Um, so you mentioned that you had your son, Jonathan, who passed away? Would you mind sharing with our listeners a little bit more of his story of his life and of his passing?

 

Beth Braga

Sure, sure. So Jonathan would be if Rose is 23, Jonathan will be 24 turning 25 this year. So we were quite young when we fell pregnant about 22/23. And I'm pretty excited. Everything was going fine, looked all terrific. I was just kind of waiting for my you know, what I felt to be a routine ultrasound and kind of 20 weeks, we went in, I say we Chris wasn't actually there. He was at work. And I was just there to get the photo of our baby. And I went in and the technician said, "Hmm, I think I need someone else to have a look at this". And that was really the first inkling that something was wrong. And so they sent us we with through what was King George, the fifth hospital for mothers and babies. It's now just all part of Royal Prince Alfred Hospital in Sydney. We were sent upstairs to the fetal medicine unit. And they did more scans up there. And they said, I think you should ring your husband. So I rang him and he jumped in a cab from his work and came. And they said, "there's a problem with your baby. There are cysts on its kidneys. And this is going to be a big problem". And that was really the first you know, obviously, we had the first kind of minor inkling. And then that was really "Oh", it was it was a body blow. You know?

 

Laura Smith

Yeah. That's gut wrenching. What happened there? he's got cyst, and then well, so next?

 

Beth Braga

What was next was they really said, the problem with the cysts is that so when, when the baby's in utero, the way that they kind of, they're attached to the mother, obviously, through the umbilical cord, but then also they drink and poop out the amniotic fluid. And the problem was that because his kidneys weren't functioning, I say, I'm holding off and saying he is because actually, I'll tell you that part of the story in a minute, but they, we didn't know whether it was a boy or girl at this stage. And they said, "Look, because they can't process the amniotic fluid. Therefore, the baby's lungs won't develop. And so because the baby's lungs weren't developed, it will be fine in utero, but it won't be fine, is incompatible with life" is what they say.

 

Laura Smith

Ohh, that's awful.

 

Beth Braga

So it was just really awful. And they said, you know, really, at this point, they then stop talking about your baby and start talking about termination. And your fetus. So the fetus is incompatible with life. And you might like to think about termination. And we were just kind of stunned

 

Laura Smith

That he's just so much to process.

 

Beth Braga

Yeah

 

Laura Smith

You go from getting your baby's picture to, "hey, we think we should terminate your baby".

 

Beth Braga

Yes, but they don't say terminate your baby terminate your fetus, they depersonalized. And so we just kind of didn't know what to do. We just kind of left stunned. Fortunately, my family just lived up the street. And we went and collapsed upon them. And then a couple of days later, actually, we went to see our GP. And JP was a Christian. She's still alive. She's a Christian lady. And we we saw her and we said, "Look, we just don't know what to do and you feel like the doctors at the hospital are saying well, you Maybe it's time to finish this and you could start again". That's what it felt like. And she said, "Well, but you wouldn't kill your seven year old with cancer". And I thought, "Oh, good point, I think this is a baby, I think, you know, I still feel that this is a human life that God has given us". And for me, there were no complications to keep the baby personally, as mother. It was just literally that our baby wouldn't survive birth.

 

Laura Smith

Wow.

 

Beth Braga

Yeah.

 

Laura Smith

I don't know. I mean, I'm sitting here and I've got questions. What, what happened with you? Like you, what big questions did it bring up for you guys? And what did you do with those? How did you process them? How did you deal with, with God during all of that? You know, God, like? Yeah, did you? Did you question him in that?

 

Beth Braga

Well, I think, I don't think we question God, per se, I think we did a lot of pleading, a lot of pleading with God, that maybe the doctors got it wrong. That, you know, God is a big God, and He can do everything in anything. So maybe that he would miraculously heal our baby, because he could do that. So we did a lot of that a lot of just clinging on and knowing that we don't understand why, but you're in charge God. And so a lot of really just doing that. And, you know, I mean clinging on to each other, but clinging on to God and saying that we are you are bigger than us. So we were going to just trust that you've got it in control, even if we don't know why this is happening. And this is just awful.

 

Laura Smith

That's beautiful.

 

Beth Braga

I think the other thing was that we both come from Christian families. Unfortunately, Chris's family parents were overseas. And they just felt a very long way away, you have to think this is the 1990s at this point. So they felt a long way away. That was very hard for them and for us. But my parents were close by which was wonderful. And, you know, there was support from from all sides of the family and lots of prayer from all sides of the family, which is wonderful.

 

Laura Smith

Yeah, that's great. And I'd imagine would really help. Because if you were going through that grief, and then you had your family encouraging you to go the same route as the doctors, that'd be really hard. So, great that you had that support. Was there anything that you guys could do to prepare? Knowing that Jonathan was going to pass away? Was there anything that you could that you could do during that that time?

 

Beth Braga

Well, there were a couple of things we did. One was, I'm sure you've heard this, lots of research about babies being able to hear, hear their mother's voices, hear classical music, hear their father's voices. And so, my husband worked in the city at a school there. And he, he took himself off to Dymocks and bought some books. And so he would read to our baby, which was very special. And then and, and the baby would kind of jump around. Now I say the baby, let me tell you that story. So we said, okay, like we were kind of all for the surprise of we don't know if it's a boy or a girl. But then when we found out that our baby, this was when our baby was going to be alive. We asked them to tell us whether it was a boy or a girl and they looked. And because of the lack of amniotic fluid, the baby was kind of at quite tight in my you know it inside. And so, as far as they could tell, it was a girl. So we called her Jessica, which was our favorite name. And, and we actually got our friends and family to call the baby Jessica too. And one of the things that I liked, I mean, everybody is different, but I liked people asking how I was and how the baby was and acknowledge not not ignoring, it's really easy to ignore, you know, kind of go, this is too hard to deal with. I'll just talk to Beth but not acknowledge the baby. But we ask people to ask about the baby. And so knowing it was Jessica was really good. So we did that. And so that was really helpful to us, even though the the end of the story is of course, as I'm pushing the baby out, the doctor goes, "What's the name for this baby?" And we went Jessica and he went, "Hmm, I think you might need to rethink that".

 

Laura Smith

Oh, my goodness.

 

Beth Braga

Oops. Um, for that year, Jonathan was an on the spot decision. But the other things that we say the other things that we did where we so when you have a baby, at that time, I don't know what happens now actually. But when you had a baby, t he hospital would provide clothes and nappies for the first little while and then you have your own to take the baby home. But because that wasn't going to happen, we chose an outfit for our baby. Something for it to be in, we went and we chose where we would like to bury the baby. We thought we'd like to choose somewhere where we might be happy to go back with other children, should we be blessed with other children later. So we kind of end. And also, it's really expensive. So we had look around and, and chose a cemetery. And we also, we weren't sure because the baby didn't have much amniotic fluid. And it was kind of being squashed by my womb, you know, although those strong muscles, we weren't sure what the baby would look like, we had a friend whose husband was a pediatrician. And we, we went and spoke to him and said, "Can you show us potentially what the baby will look like?" Because I was worried that I would, I wouldn't cope. Hmm. So I, I did we did that. And it was quite helpful. Hmm.

 

Laura Smith

So labor is a pretty daunting task on the best of days. How did you cope, going into it? Knowing what was coming.

 

Beth Braga

And so what we did was, we, we were also very blessed to have a - so I am a music teacher. And I had lots of piano students. And one of the mums of my piano students, was a lovely Christian lady who is a midwife. And she ran, she would run for the hospital where she worked the birthing courses. And, of course, it wasn't the right for us to go to a regular birthing course with lots of other people who are excited about having babies. But she came in and ran it in our home, which was a lovely gift. And just so we were prepared, because you know, first baby were 22, you know, what's it going to be like? So that was really helpful. So in terms of the process of labor, we were kind of prepared that way. But the reality was that, really, our baby would never take a first breath. So somewhere in that the baby would die. But when we went, so when I went into labor, you know, you don't go into hospital straightaway, you kind of just hang around at home until you need to go in. So we did that. And then when we got there, and when I started labor, but I felt like I could feel the baby moving. But they didn't hook us up to a monitor. And we didn't ask because I didn't think I could do it. If I if I knew and, and people do, and they are amazing. People do know, but I didn't know. So we just kind of decided we would just not know, the moment that had happened, you know? Yeah.

 

Laura Smith

Oh wow. Did you get to have much time with Jonathan afterwards?

 

Beth Braga

Well, yes. So so he was still born. So he was he was dead when we when he was born. But the hospital was amazing. And, you know, we got to all our family came in and, and saw Jonathan, and then we they put us in a room, they have rooms set aside for this kind of thing. And it's not near the people who've just had babies. And and so we had kind of a room and Chris was able to stay, and we were able to keep our baby with us. And so we stayed overnight. So we kind of he was born in the middle of the night, and our immediate families came then. And then we stayed the next day. And actually, our friends asked to come and we said, you know, like, and we said, we were happy for you to come and, and see us and our baby. And so that that was pretty special. I think it was pretty hard, you know, but people do come like Chris's grandma came, and things like that. And then and then we stayed one night, and then the next day we left and that was the absolute worst moment. You know, leaving your baby behind is pretty awful.

 

Laura Smith

Yeah. Can't imagine. How is your relationship with God through this entire process?

 

Beth Braga

Look, I think I think what I said to you before, Laura, at the beginning, is is actually what kept us through that is we just hang on, hang on for dear life, and thought we don't know why God's doing this. You know, we know that God knows our baby, even when it's in its mother's womb. So God knows our baby, then God loves their baby, then God loves us. And he is strong and powerful. So all of those things were a great comfort and knowing that, you know, really, death and, and sickness are so much part of this fallen world that we live in. And so And this is not how it's meant to be. Not at all. But But God has a plan. And it's bigger than us. You know, so I think we just held on to that thought, really, those thoughts and, and that's all we could do.

 

Laura Smith

That's great. Um, you mentioned earlier that you visit Jonathan every year, or that your intent was to visit him every year. And that's why you picked out the same cemetery that you did. How has Jonathan's life affected your subsequent children? So I'm just thinking my kids haven't been faced with the bigger questions around death until they're a bit older. But yours has had that from the very beginning, has it shaped their understanding of life and death?

 

Beth Braga

Look, I think it has, because I think there's a there's a real reality to the fact. I've gone every year. We don't go we don't tend to go in between times. But we do go on. We just call it Jonathan's birthday. Because it's all in one day. And so we always go together. And actually, even though our elder daughter is married, and I think there's been one year we have one of our children was he did a gap year overseas, so he didn't come. But every year, everybody's come and we kind of they want to come. Because it's part of what we do and who we are. And they see this funny, they go through a stage where they kind of really understand that there's another brother and he's missing. And so whenever someone says, How many brothers and sisters do you have? do you have? And I go, Oh, well, we have four boys and three girls. They go, No, mom, no, we have five boys. Whoever it is, you know, might be less than that, depending on the child. But there's a real kind of, no, this is part of our family and in Jonathan's part of our family and, and I think we just kind of, you know, how you think of language that's appropriate to your children. So, we, you know, Jonathan's in heaven with God, and that's much better. You know, his body wasn't he, his body wasn't able to be here, but God is looking after him. And, and, and I think the other thing we do is we treat his birthday, like we treat all of their birthdays, as in, we have a family traditions that we all have coco pops on someone's birthday for breakfast. And Froot Loops, it depends what you like. And so we have them on Jonathan's birthday as well. And, of course, at Christmas, we have them on Jesus birthday. But you know, so it's just, it's just part of that it's a birthday. And we do that. when my kids were little or younger, my, my mum and dad would give them a book on Jonathan's birthday. Just everybody who got a book, or and, and I know that our parents, both our parents, so Chris's parents, and my parents both go and visit the cemetery on Jonathan's birthday, which is kind of special to you know, like,

 

Laura Smith

I think that's really beautiful. It's still part of your family.

 

Beth Braga

Yes. And still part of the language. And I think the other thing is, you know, like, I have a photo of all the babies on the piano. Let me tell you, the piano is not quite big enough. And, and  I haven't got grandbabies yet.  Exactly! And there's a photo of Jonathan there too. So you know, like, he's kind of a beautiful part of our life.

 

Laura Smith

Yeah, that's nice. So you've got a photo of him, too.

 

Beth Braga

Yeah.

 

Laura Smith

How do you think God has refined you through Jonathan's life and his death?

 

Beth Braga

Um, look, I think, I think it is knowing that God's in charge, I think, so. I don't remember if we talked about this or not, Laura, but I've also had cancer and

 

Laura Smith

Oh goodness, Beth.

 

Beth Braga

Sorry. Um, and I think when we when we found out I had cancer, and, you know, that's just like a real blow.

 

Laura Smith

We just throw that one in there as well.

 

Beth Braga

Oh, you know. And but I think, I think having had Jonathan and having held on to God through Jonathan, and it was, it was awful. I think, you know, he kind of the muscle memory of God's in charge, God knows what he's doing. God will look after us. And if it's my turn to go and be with God, then that will be a good thing. Even though it will be terribly difficult to leave my family. But to know that God has a plan, I find that the biggest comfort that God has a plan, and if I don't know what it is, and I don't, then at least someone does.

 

Laura Smith

You mentioned earlier that people didn't know how to talk to you when you're pregnant, too. They acknowledge the baby, don't they acknowledge the baby. And I mean, I know for my myself when faced with people who are walking a similar road, I baulkk at, what do I say? How do I Help you? Do I help you? Like, you know, do you have any advice for those of us who are walking alongside someone? And how we can be a friend in that situation?

 

Beth Braga

Well, honestly, I think I always talk about it this way, this sounds a little blunt. But anyway, I think you should always acknowledge the elephant in the room. That is, you know, I am pregnant with a baby, my baby is going to die. But probably it's best to actually ask the people and say, you know, like, "I want to love you and look after you. And I'm concerned for your little person. And, you know, would you like me to ask after them?" And ask, you know, of course, I'll ask after you, and how would you like us to talk about your, your precious one. And, you know, just kind of acknowledge what is happening, I think is the best thing you can do. Because, and, and they'll tell you like, so I know, for me, like, I was actually working at a university, meeting up and reading the Bible with girls. And so, I mean, they haven't met someone who was pregnant, who was their age, let alone someone who was pregnant, who's baby was gonna die. Oh, my goodness. So often, you're the person who's educating everybody else. And so I would say to them, I look, I'd love you to ask how about how Jessica's going, I'd love for you to ask how I'm going and that kind of thing. And, and they were really good at it. They kind of bit the bullet and did it. And it's not so hard once you think about it. And then I found it difficult when people felt that we weren't. There were some people who felt that we weren't faithful enough. And if we loved God more, he would heal our baby. And that was very hurtful.

 

Laura Smith

Yeah. Wow.

 

Beth Braga

And someone said that to me in the last five years, like, it's like, if you really, if you really prayed, you're very would have been healed. It's like, sometimes God says no to our prayers.

 

Laura Smith

But that doesn't make sense to me, because otherwise no one would die, because you would think like, no one has enough faith and because otherwise we would be.

 

Beth Braga

There's a lot of there's a lot of lack of logic in it. Look, I, I think, I think it kind of comes from if I may say, a kind of teaching that is, if you it's like a prosperity gospel in a way that is, if you have enough faith, then you will be given all God's glorious riches. I think that's true. But I think God's glorious riches are in heaven. So therefore, sure, I love God so much, and I will go to be with him in heaven. I know that. But that doesn't mean that life here now is without the pain and suffering that happens as a result of the fall.

 

Laura Smith

Mmm, Amen.

 

Beth Braga

So I think he just is just, you have to, you have to understand that and you have to understand that you can pray to God. And God can answer prayers. And he is miraculous, and all powerful. And he could have healed my baby, but he chose not to.

 

Laura Smith

And we take comfort in that. Yeah, that was God's choice in his sovereign plan for some reason. Yeah, and... Submit to that.

 

Beth Braga

Yeah, yeah. So anyway, so I just think it's, it's a funny picture of God. But it was very difficult to hear that. And, and even as I say, five years ago, when someone said it, and I just went, "are you serious?" I didn't say that. Because they themselves were on their own journey. And but it was, I just don't know.

 

Laura Smith

Yes. And I guess thankfully, you've had 20 years of processing that under your belt. Imagine, in your grief, that would have just been 10 times harder to deal with.

 

Beth Braga

Yeah. So I think my parents did protect us a little bit, like one of the one person who was saying it was kind of a connection through my mum, and she kind of said, Oh, you have become and pray over them. And, and, and, you know, because if they really trusted that and my mom went, oh, let's just pray together. You know, kind of cut it off at the pass.

 

Laura Smith

What a beautiful mum.

 

Beth Braga

All right. So I just think there are lots of challenges along the way, I guess.

 

Laura Smith

Yeah. Do you have any advice for the mom who is losing or has lost her baby? How would you encourage or comfort her in pain?

 

Beth Braga

Give her a big hug. And, you know, and I think and acknowledge the pain acknowledge that the absolute gut wrenchingly grief that it is encourage them to, to cling on to God. He is all powerful. He knows all things. He has you in the palm of his hand. And, and just really, I think all we can do is walk alongside them. And, you know, in the end, you don't want to express platitudes. But for people to hear your he your understanding and your love for them and what you do, I think that's really important. And I know for instance, I just thinking about one of my, one of my cousin's 16 year old died of a brain tumor, I was just horrendous. And I know for her, she didn't really have the capacity to, necessarily to contact all the people who were expressing their love, and, and care. But she appreciated every one of those text messages, whether whether she responded or not. So you imagine, I mean, you know, Jonathan will be 25, we barely had a mobile phone. In fact, we didn't, we did not have a mobile phone. So there was no, there was no texting, it wasn't like that. But lots of notes, people would write notes, I know, and I've taken a leaf from my cousin's booking this, I try. And when I know someone's really having a rough time, I try and send messages that don't require responses. So if they want to text me, great, I'd love to have a chat. But if if they just want to, if they don't want to respond, I don't want them to feel burdened by my message. So I just think so those kinds of things are really helpful, you know, like, and I know, you know, just a text message with a Bible verse, and I was thinking of you today or, and when I was sick, I had breast cancer. And I would have it every now and again, honestly, once a week, probably, I had a message from a friend in England, and she would just send me, I've just been listening to this song. And it's really encouraged me because blah, blah, blah, and just would send me a song, or a picture of she'd taken on a walk as she walked along the river, in Oxford. So I found those kinds of things comforting, and I think, you know, just that people are thinking of you. Not that you have to respond. But that, that you are in people's thoughts and prayers is a great comfort. I think people care therefore Yeah,

 

Laura Smith

From one mom to another. Would you have anything that you would love to share or comfort or encourage a mum, who's walking this road?

 

Beth Braga

I know, I guess from from one mom to another, I'd say two things. One is I encourage them to read the Bible, right? If I was sending a verse or a chapter from the Bible, this is what I would send, I would send Psalm 46 God is our strength and refuge, our present helping help in trouble. And he won't leave us. You know, he won't leave us. We he will be there. He loves us in all things. So that's the first one. The second one is and this is actually, at Jonathan's funeral, we had a funeral for Jonathan. This is the passage that was preached on by my uncle. And it was Romans, chapter eight, verse 18. And following, I'll just read a little bit of it. I consider that our present sufferings and not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us, for the creation waits and expectation for the children of God to be revealed. And then for the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope, that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God. And then when you skip down a little bit more, it just talks about how, you know God is there all the time, and he works good, good through all things. And He even gave up his son to suffer for us. And I think that's a great thing. To think. You know, it is very comforting.  And then this, if we can finish with verse 38, For, I'm convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God, that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

Laura Smith

It's beautiful.

 

Beth Braga

So I think I think that's what I'd say nothing can separate us from God. Hang on.