Laura Smith

Hi, Sarah, and welcome to unsung stories. Thanks for joining us.

 

Sarah Vant

Hey, thanks. Great to be here.

 

Laura Smith

Just so that our listeners can get to know you a little bit more, would you mind telling us a bit about you, your family life? And what everyday life looks like for you?

 

Sarah Vant

Yes. So I am married to Simon. We've been married for 15 years, which has gone very quickly. And yeah, we have four kids a lot. And you five no is in you three, all these anyone. And I've got Evie who is in preschool and will start school next year. I work two days a week doing videos for distance, ed. So I'm a primary teacher, for you for. That's been pretty fun that started last year. And yeah, we have a dog. And we like to go on holidays and our caravan that sums up our family life.

 

Laura Smith

That's awesome.

 

Sarah Vant

Yeah.

 

Laura Smith

So you've been a parent for a while now.

 

Sarah Vant

Yeah.

 

Laura Smith

So as you think back over the last decade, and your transition to motherhood, what's something that really sticks out to you about parenting and becoming a mum?

 

Sarah Vant

Yeah, well, I remember when we got married. And that was when I began to realize how sinful I really was. How selfish I was. And I think then becoming a mum was just next level, I think I was reminded every day of my selfishness and my sinfulness through my actions and my thoughts. And yeah, instead of leaning into God's grace, or the more and remembering that Jesus paid the cost of my sin on the cross, I just tried to be better. Like I tried to be a better wife and a better mum. And yeah, I had these high expectations on myself of what I needed to do to be a better mum yet. I could never meet those expectations. And so that's when I began to experience mum guilt.

 

And I felt like, the longer that I was a mum, the more kids we had, so the crazier life got. And the more I just felt like a failure, but yet still held these these high expectations of what I thought it meant to be a good mum. That that's been a an emotionally draining.

 

Laura Smith

And pretty normal one.

 

Sarah Vant

Yes.

 

Laura Smith

Like, I feel like motherhood, the thing that we all just want to do so good at. And then fail.

 

Sarah Vant

Yep. And before you have kids, you are very critical of other parents. And I would never do that with my children. So I feel like you begin setting the standard for yourself before you even have.

 

Laura Smith

Yeah, yeah. So what does this mum guilt look like in everyday life for you?

 

Sarah Vant

Oh,well, gosh,it is. It's, it's everywhere. All right, like so, you know, like feeding my kids two minute noodles for dinner. And like feeling like I need to chop up and carry it to put on the time. Or when I give my kids extra screen time because I need a moment longer of peace. Or when we skip reading the Bible as a family because it's past their bedtime, or I completely forgot about reading it all together. I remember when our kids were, like, really little, it'd be bedtime they'd say, "Mum, we need to read the Bible". And we're like, No, it's too late go to bed. Oh, something wrong about that. Butyes, when I don't feel like I get to spend enough quality time with my kids. When I hear the way other parents talk so calmly into their kids having a tantrum. And I'm like, I know the way I speak to my children. When I see other other mums playing with their kids and being fun mums or going to someone else's house, and it's clean and tidy. And I know the state of my own house, or like we've got four kids, like we go to get ice cream and they wanted to their own ice cream from the freezer. But because we have four kids, they're like, No, you will get a box and you choose to get that and be like, Oh, we want to choose our own ice cream and yet see other people who have to get to have their own ice cream that would be ripped off and I feel guilty or like just rocking up to a playdate and you've bought a packet of Teddy's and the other mums got a beautifully made tree.

 

Laura Smith

Organic.

 

Sarah Vant

Yes, yeah.

 

Laura Smith

cut up into little stars.

 

Sarah Vant

Yes. So I feel like it's everywhere. Like I feel like if I was actually aware of how much my subconsciousness was doing this, it would be a big long list. But I feel like what I notice about lots of those scenarios is that I'm comparing myself to other mums. Like I'm making an assumption that they are perfect. And when I have this unrealistic expectation on myself to be the perfect mum and it appears like that Perfect, that's when I get that sinking feeling of mum guilt.

 

Laura Smith

Yeah. So I feel like mum guilt isn't a uniquely Christian experience. So mums have so much guilt about their child raising and the world puts so much pressure for us to be the perfect parent, whatever that looks like, time, I feel that Christians have this added layer or pressure, because we also want our kids to be seeking Jesus in this time. So do you have any thoughts? What does the world tell us to do without mum guilt? But what does God say about it?

 

Sarah Vant

Yeah, so I think like the world would say, like things like, you know, you have to have your cup full before you can feel somebody else's. And so like self care, would be a big a big solution to that. Yep. Having having your village around you, that kind of thing. But yeah, I think what God says about mum guilt is all God knows. And I'm a sinner, like, he knows me. He knows me better than I know myself. And he knows that I'm far from perfect. And I need to keep reminding myself that I don't have to be a perfect parent. I never will be, and God doesn't expect me to be perfect. I think in realizing my imperfections, I can look to Jesus and be reminded that he was perfect. He never sinned. And he always loved He was God. I need to lay my failures at the foot of the cross, knowing that they're completely dealt with in Jesus, and he forgives me and he still loves me, and he loves me more than anybody else ever will.

 

Laura Smith

How beautiful is that?

 

Sarah Vant

I know, I know. It's just a funny thing, when like you can have in your head when you think about like, I'm just trying to be perfect. What? That's so dumb. Like, I can't be perfect, but it's still it's like my default choice.

 

Laura Smith

And as Christians, we know this acutely.

 

Sarah Vant

Yeah.

 

Laura Smith

The whole point of the gospel, what we've put our faith in is that we're not good enough.

 

Sarah Vant

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I feel that guilt so deeply. And yeah, I feel like I've got this image in my head of the day when I get to see my Creator face to face. And I come to him with like, my head hung in guilt and shame. And God like gently just putting his hand under my chin, and lifting my face towards him and looking in the eyes and saying, well done good and faithful servant. And I feel like that just like, it just makes me Yeah, takes me out of myself and points me to Jesus that I am. Why am I trying to be perfect? I can't be perfect. And I do. I know that. And I know that's why I need Jesus. And yeah, I feel this this guilt deeply. But yeah, a friend a talk to me once and and she says, like, audience of one. I was like, Yes, because I've been like, for me, lots of my guilt is comparing to other mums, who appear to be perfect, which they're, they're thinking probably the same about me like,

 

Laura Smith

Knowing you, you do really look like that perfect mum, Sarah!

 

Sarah Vant

Stop it. No. Oh. And like it is it's really frustrating that instead of caring about the what, what 1 million people think that's so emotionally draining, I just need to care about what God thinks and what his opinion of me is like that audience of one and he is, he's my father. And, and I don't even need to impress him. Like he is for me. He loves me, he forgives me. And so I don't know why I live my life that focused on this noise of everybody else, instead of this audience of one. I feel like the burden is lifted, and like my mind would just be quiet. If I focus on God and his opinion of me. Yeah, instead of worrying about what other people think

 

Laura Smith

It kind of blows my mind, like, on one hand, or we do have to care about his God and that is so free.

 

Sarah Vant

Yes.

 

Laura Smith

But I only have a habit. It's kind of petrifying.

 

Sarah Vant

Totally, totally. That's, that's how I feel about just parenting in general. But it's like, in one sense, God's got it. He's in control. We just need to be faithful work. Like be faithful in the gifts that God's given us to bring him glory and to make disciples in our families. And yet, that's a very daunting task. But it's like that double side yet he's got it as well. It's easier In his plan so,

 

Laura Smith

Sarah, when do you feel at the most awkward talking about normal mum guilt Christian mum guilt? What's the pinnacle for you? Yeah.

 

Sarah Vant

So you know, there's like the mundane mum guilt about two minute noodles video. But I feel like then when it gets to the question of like, Am I doing enough for them to become Christians or to stay Christians, which I always fail, instead of comparing to others, like the stem of that mum guilt is more just like a lack of trust in God. And yet, so I found it really helpful like Ephesians two, verse eight to nine says, "For it is by grace that you have been saved through faith, and it is it's not from yourselves, it is the gift of God, not by works so that no one can boast" or feel like that verse is very reassuring that yet when I'm feeling mu guilt about how badly I'm stuffing up my kids for my poor parenting and my lack of being a godly role model, that I'm, I'm reminded that it's not like, I'm not safe, my own words, and my kids aren't saved by how perfectly I parent them. It's by the beautiful gift of God's grace that we're saved. And yeah, like we were talking before, like, it's in his timing in his plan, and trusting that God has my life, and he has my kids lives, like that lifts the burden of guilt that I feel as a mum. So I'm so thankful that it is not by my own efforts that my kids are safe to because that's a bit scary.

 

Laura Smith

It's not up to us

 

Sarah Vant

yes, not up to me. So I need to trust God in that. And I feel like that is where my trust in God is most tested.

 

Laura Smith

Hmm, that was thinking, it's painful to do that. Yeah, I want to control that outcome more than anything else. Yeah, it's very easy to say, I'll just trust God, but when you're giving them in their most precious thing,

 

Sarah Vant

Totally. And I feel like that's where they're not. I think my default is to go, "Oh, well, look, if I just" if I just read the Bible with them every day, if I just can, like, have a kind answer to them every time or if I can just pray for them every time they ask me something that I could point to like that. And so by then, by doing that, I'm also then putting a lot of pressure on myself like that, that it's in my efforts that they're safe. But yeah, it's through grace and God's work.

 

Laura Smith

And we're just called to be faithful

 

Sarah Vant

That's right. That's right. And that's where I feel like the two sided thing comes in where it's like, we need to be faithful. And and yeah, you know, work as hard as we can to help our kids know and love God, but also know that, yeah, it's God's plan. And we need to trust him in that. Yeah. And we're trying to be faithful. But like, Paul, we can rejoice and rest in God's grace. Because Yeah, saving a weak person demonstrates God's power. There's so much to say like, there's this passage in two Corinthians chapter 12, where Paul's talking about the hardships that he was going through, and asks God to take them away. And God says, My grace is sufficient for you. My power is made perfect in weakness. And then Paul goes on to say, therefore, I will boast all the more gladly about my weakness, so that Christ's power may rest on me. And, yeah,

 

Laura Smith

that's beautiful.

 

Sarah Vant

Yeah, I feel like that in our weakness. He's strong as that assurance that he's out his grace is sufficient for us.

 

Laura Smith

Yeah. And even for myself, but for my kids, like, yeah, that, even if I look weak, maybe God can be seen through that.

 

Sarah Vant

Yes, yes. That's our prayer as mums, hey.

 

Laura Smith

So thinking with this as our lens, how do we then know or evaluate when to ignore our mum guilt? Or when do we lean in and listen, because maybe we need to be altering or changing things.

 

Sarah Vant

Yeah, that is a really good question. And one that I'm yeah, I think it really depends on the individual like I think that you really need to ask yourself the question, why am I feeling this guilt? I think you need to try and get to the bottom of what's happening underneath so that the healthy treats not not having that or whatever. Like there's there's sort of different levels maybe of guilt but in in thinking about this mum guilt. Oh, actually, I found it really helpful realizing what was happening underneath that. Yeah, it is that I am comparing myself or Yeah, it is my lack of trust in God. So I think trying to work out what it is for you that that you're feeling underneath. I think don't just simply write it off as of mum guilt. Because it could be God prompting you to make a change. But yeah, that I guess there's then there's that balance of like, he doesn't want you to be just constantly feeling that guilt, but he wants, like he wants us to change and to grow and to be godly. And so I think praying about it asking that God would would reveal that to you. And yeah, reading in the Bible, obviously, and yet also chatting to Christian sisters. I feel like you can run that passed, then I'd be like, what do you think about this? Like, do you think this is a thing? Or what do you think's going on? Because sometimes that can be really helpful to just get the other side of my being dumb in this? Yeah,

 

Laura Smith

yeah, I think looking for the thing that's underlying, because even as you're talking about lots of your mum guilt, what's underlying is actually this fear of what people think totally and comparison. And so what's the thing behind it? If it's healthy food? Is that fear of, you know, being unhealthy? Or is it being late fear of people judging you? whereas there could be other things that you have this guilt? And it's actually because you're being sinful?

 

Sarah Vant

Yeah. Yeah.

 

Laura Smith

So I know for me, often when I'm yelling at my kids, often what's underneath it is like this, I want control and authority and respect. And I'm not getting that.

 

Sarah Vant

Yeah.

 

Laura Smith

Which the shame and the guilt I feel of yelling is because of the sin behind it.

 

Sarah Vant

Yep. And that sneaking into your kid's room at night to give because, sorry, when it's late. I feel like sometimes the day so busy that it's not until that night time that you reflect and then you just feel that you're like, Oh,

 

Laura Smith

yeah. So as you were talking, lots of it had to do with comparing yourself to other people. And so I think it'd be helpful. Could you give us like a realistic insight into what it's like raising Christian kids? Because we can look at another mum and think, oh, wow, they're doing an amazing job. But I can guarantee you they're thinking the same things we are. So what does it look like for you to raise Christian kids?

 

Sarah Vant

Oh, well, it's a tough gig. Yeah, like I'm a sinful mum, raising sinful kids. So in the roller coaster of like, it's such hard work, but yet brings so much joy. And we have this amazing God given opportunity to model the gospel to our kids and our family. And so I feel like it's the reality of everyday failures. Like they see the real me and what I can put on outside of my four walls, these facade, yet they see me when I'm tired. They see they see the real me and the sooner that I am and yeah, I'm constantly needing forgiveness for that.

 

Laura Smith

Yes, I get a front row seat to a real follower of Jesus. Yeah.

 

Sarah Vant

Not sure if I'd paid tickets. Yeah, I think the passage in Deuteronomy, chapter six, verse five, it says, Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul. And with all your strength, these commandments I give you today are to be on your hearts, impress them on your children, talk about them when you sit at home. And when you walk along the road when you lie down. And when you get up, tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads. Like there's that image of like, Love the Lord your God with everything, and then impress that on your children. You're to talk about it all the time. But you need to have the love of God first. And then I feel like naturally, it will come to talk about God in everyday life. I find it frustrating. But the reality is that I know, my walk with God really does dictate the whole feel of our family. I feel like when I am not close with God, I'm not reading his word regularly. I can see it in my behavior. And then I can see my kids. Why normally see my kids burst at me. And so yeah, I need to have my relationship with God. Right, so that I can then model that to my kids, because I can't expect that from my kids. If I can't be doing that myself.

 

Laura Smith

I have totally feel that. I heard someone say it once. Like if you're a cup and someone knocks you what's coming out. And I think about all the time if I'm not filling my cup with Jesus, what's coming out? Yeah, and when I'm filling it with music that's not honoring Jesus or Netflix or my phone. Often that's what's coming out. But when I'm reading my Bible heaps, it's just this outpouring like in that passage.

 

Sarah Vant

And yeah, I think for raising Christian kids, like we want to be having those conversations, I feel like the state of life that we're coming into now is a very much more like taking those moments that come to talk about God. And which I actually find really tough. Like, it was nice. It was like, okay, it's Bible time. Not that we wouldn't have conversations other times in the day, but it's, it's a bigger conversation. My guess is if I keep getting dinner ready, and then someone will come in with something, and I've got to take my brain out of rushing to get dinner ready to try and take that opportunity. And I don't always do that. And I don't do that. Well, but yeah, I heard it. I've heard it said that. If your kids aren't saying, Oh, you always talk about God, you're not talking about him enough. And I was like, Oh, that's challenging. My kids saying that about me. Am I talking? Is he everything like he's is? Yeah. Trying to relate back to him as much as possible.

 

Laura Smith

Yeah. And how to do that in a non overbearing way.

 

Sarah Vant

Totally. And you know what, sometimes they even notice my voice changes. I don't know why that happens. But it's like casual everyday. Oh, and then we put our Bible study voice on.

 

Laura Smith

I'm going to be a good Christian mum right now

 

Sarah Vant

So I feel like yeah, the more I do it, the more that becomes natural, but I'm still definitely working on that one. Yeah.

 

Laura Smith

So in saying all of that, what does a Bible study look like in your family?

 

Sarah Vant

Well, let's just say it wasn't what I pictured it would be my perfect plan. So my heavy family,

 

good children, sitting around the fireplace... theological discussion..

 

It's definitely changed over the years. I feel like initially, we were we were very consistent with reading the Bible. And we loved the Jesus storybook Bible. And I remember, even when Eli was a little kid, we would like Piney mean with our arms. So I was like, we are reading the Bible, like it's, what we do is and then, yeah, just over the years, it's changed. And we've definitely gone through seasons, we've tried different things. But Bible study in our family normally looks like kids being separated onto different languages, so they don't talk to each other, normally confiscating a toy, or a pen or a pillow, or whatever they can find to distract themselves and someone's sit on the couch. Don't touch No, not even with your toe. Someone's normally in trouble for answering a question that was meant for someone else like you're trying to ask the younger kid one of the basic questions, the old ones, like yes, I know it says it. And so then the other person is in tears, because they wanted to answer the question. Someone's normally ends up in timeout. Then like, what can you tell me going like, why is this? Oh, so yeah, we that. But then like we do have there? There is. There are other times where we do have very lovely moments where we didn't argue and everyone is concentrating. But just I thought that's what it would be all the time. It's more like exciting when it's when that's the case. But yeah, we do. Like for kids, it's a bit hard to get a word in. And he sometimes we feel guilty about not knowing our kids better, like just giving them that opportunity to share what's happening with them. So at dinner, we do highs and lows. So the same high school part of the day loads bad part of the day. And so we tried to teach them to listen to each other, and not talk over the top of somebody else to respect each other. And yeah, that's just a good little insight into what's happening in their lives. And then yeah, each night, I go and say good night and I go and pray with them. And normally sing them a song and just catch up on their day. And so having heard their highs and lows, it's helpful to then be able to pray for them in that. And each Monday night farm and I tried to sit down and just chat about what we would do in like our 10 minutes of intentional Bible time in the week like we've, we've tried to sort of pare it back and go, let's just like commit to a 10 minute intentional Bible time. And everything else is a bonus. And do you do that at dinner? Yeah, we've stopped No, well, we've tried different things. We've tried the mornings, which again, sort of seems to work for a bit and then we're like it's not working need to change it up.

 

Laura Smith

I think that's the key as well though. Changing it up.

 

Sarah Vant

Yeah. And we're now in the season of lots of training in the afternoons. And so yet when when is the best time to do that? We've started doing it after dinner. That's what we're doing at the moment. And we've sort of changed up we're doing this book handling the bookshelf, or we got it when it was too old for the kids. It's called the ology.

 

Laura Smith

Yeah.

 

Sarah Vant

And so it's just reading truths about God, like a different truth each day. And so it's been tricky trying to work out what to do with the kids when they're all different ages. And so we're kind of at the moment just reading a thing about God. And then they've all got a journal, and they can just do something in their journal in response. So like, we looked at God being three, one. And so Oli wrote, one plus one plus one equals one. I was like, that's great. Like, I seen God, the Father God, like God, is really three, I know. Or like writing a verse or writing lyrics to a song that we were listening to or Evie seats in does pretend writing. So she's not actually writing anything. But she's hearing we're talking about and she feels like she's joining in so well.

 

Laura Smith

That's a really good idea. I like that. Because we're similar. Well, mine are a lot younger still.

 

Sarah Vant

Yeah, that's similar in that there's the eight the age gap is a bit tricky for family.

 

Laura Smith

Yeah, it's really hard. And I'm feeling that. A few years ago, we were just read a toddler book Bible. But now you've got all these different ages. I wonder if I could give them their journal or their paper as we're doing it and might stop them being naughty.

 

Sarah Vant

We'll see. That's also another thing. We've moved from the lounges to the table. I think that might be helpful, because everyone's dinner's on the table. Yes, that's true. Thatcould be the madness.

 

Laura Smith

So in saying all of this, is there anything from the Bible that you just cling to in your parenting effort?

 

Sarah Vant

Oh, there's heaps that we cling to. But I think one Corinthians 15:58 it says, "Therefore, my dear brothers and sisters, stand firm, let nothing move you always give yourself fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain." So that I find encouragement from that verse knowing that we're making disciples in our house. And like, that's a massive responsibility, one sentence like we're talking about, but we need to be faithful in our parenting. And it's hard, and it's tough. And yeah, that constant reminder of need for forgiveness. I have gotten a lot better at saying sorry, because I have a lot of practicing that. But yeah, knowing that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.

 

Laura Smith

I really like the stand firm as well. Like when you are building a house on a solid foundation on the raw, can stand firm. Yeah, I mean, it's hard. But we have a great foundation. So holding us. Would you have any advice or encouragement that you could offer to the mum who just feels overwhelmed with the mum guilt?

 

Sarah Vant

Yeah, I think just trying to work out what is causing the guilt? Because Yeah, I think it could be different for everybody. Like, are you feeling mum guilt? Because you're comparing yourself to others? Or are you feeling mum guilt? Because you aren't trusting God completely? What do you do you feel the pressure that it's up to you, for your kids to become Christians? Or are you feeling mum guilt? Because God has helped you to see your sin? And is possibly prompting change? I think, yeah, take the time to sit and think about it, think about what's going on and pray about it. And and God will make it clear whether there's change needed, or you can just flick that one. So yeah, praying and reading and chatting to your Christian sisters, I think a helpful things that you can do. I think another big thing is like social media is massive if you're comparing yourself to other other mums, and if that's a weakness, like, I've had seasons of just going off completely, because I've struggled with that. Whereas other times, it hasn't been so bad. And so I think identifying like it, because I do find it crazy that we can feel these things without being aware of that. I can be scrolling through seeing these other mums and having a great time with their kids and not identifying that I'm feeling like oh, like I'm, I'm having feelings towards myself of guilt. Not just going, Oh, look, she's a great mum. That's so great. She's spending that time with a kids. That's lovely. I turned it into something about me and I'm feeling jealous and that's all yuck. Yeah. So yeah, I think limiting social media can help with that as well. Um, and I think as well, just remembering like, you don't have to be the perfect parent. God hasn't called you to perfection. And he doesn't expect you to be perfect, he knows that you're not. But like, we are called to be faithful and obedient with what God has given us to yet use our responsibilities in our families to help point them to God, and God uses our weaknesses, to to do that, and to point to him that we made Jesus weak, we can't save ourselves, we can't be perfect by ourselves. We need Jesus to come and he has done that for us and he's saved us and we're forgiven. So that's very reassuring that we don't need to feel that guilt.